[Mastwatch] West Kal Mast: re possible research projects

Mikaail Kavanagh dmikekav at gmail.com
Sat Mar 30 06:15:12 PDT 2019


Good point.  I should have thought of that.  My first additional thought  is that it gives neram quite a challenge as it not only has to reproduce  successfully upstream in the sense of the general direction, it’s fruits have to end up  - at least for the most part - on riverbanks which in most places occupy only a small minority of the landscape. Mike 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 30 Mar 2019, at 4:06 PM, Richard <corlett at xtbg.org.cn> wrote:
> 
> Neram also has to disperse upstream, or the whole population would gradually drift down to the sea. Presumably rare but essential wind-dispersal events do this. Richard
>  
> From: Mikaail Kavanagh [mailto:dmikekav at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2019 3:53 PM
> To: Ferry Slik
> Cc: Corlett_XTBG; Ghazoul Jaboury; Chuck Cannon; Ashton, Peter; mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> Subject: Re: [Mastwatch] West Kal Mast: re possible research projects
>  
> Certainly should be.  I wonder if the wings on the fruits of neram (D. oblongifolius) act as oars or sails as the fruit float down river before a lucky few get stuck on suitable river banks - perhaps with the aid of their wings - where there are vacant patches of sunlight to facilitate growth. Good luck with the statistical analysis.
>  
> Seriously, neram - as far as I know - has typical winged fruit which raises a question on why smaller wings have not apparently been selected for, in spite of the fact that almost all nerams grow out over water. This changes the ball game re the value of wings on fruit, in comparison with typical land-based dipterocarps.
>  
> Mike Kavanagh
> 
> 
> On 29 Mar 2019, at 9:48 AM, Ferry Slik <ferryslik at hotmail.com> wrote:
>  
> Should be possible to set up some projects to test at least some of these hypotheses.....
>  
> Ferry Slik
> Associate Professor & Curator of the UBD Herbarium
> Faculty of Science
> Universiti Brunei Darussalam,
> Jln Tungku Link, Gadong, BE1410, Brunei Darussalam.
> 
> Website
> http://www.phylodiversity.net/fslik/
> http://expert.ubd.edu.bn/profiles/johan.slik.php
> 
> Plants of Southeast Asia
> http://www.asianplant.net
> 
> Asian plant species synonym website
> http://www.phylodiversity.net/fslik/synonym_lookup.htm
> 
> Faculty of Science
> http://fos.ubd.edu.bn/index.html
>  
> From: Mastwatch <mastwatch-bounces at lists.phylodiversity.net> on behalf of Corlett_XTBG <Corlett at xtbg.org.cn>
> Sent: 29 March 2019 9:19 AM
> To: 'Ghazoul Jaboury'; 'Chuck Cannon'; 'Ashton, Peter'
> Cc: mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> Subject: Re: [Mastwatch] West Kal Mast
>  
> Don’t underestimate scatter-hoarding rodents for wingless dipterocarps. Recent studies show that they can disperse Fagaceae – including Chuck’s stone oaks - tens of metres by caching and re-caching, and big rats like Leopoldamys move them a long way in one go. Scatter-hoarding would select strongly against wings, since they would get caught on obstacles when being dragged sideways.
>  
> Richard
>  
> From: mastwatch-bounces at lists.phylodiversity.net [mailto:mastwatch-bounces at lists.phylodiversity.net] On Behalf Of Ghazoul Jaboury
> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2019 12:04 AM
> To: Chuck Cannon; Ashton, Peter
> Cc: mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> Subject: Re: [Mastwatch] West Kal Mast
>  
> I have been following this thread with interest. I agree that rare windy events have a substantial impact on dispersal. I have seen very large numbers of dipterocarp fruit dispersed great distances (100s of metres) during strong winds, albeit in rather open dry deciduous dipterocarp forests in Thailand. I have also seen large quantities of fruit being dispersed several tens of metres (at least) from dipterocarps in Sepilok, although this was in forest edge conditions.
>  
> Genetic studies suggest that dipterocarp seed dispersal can be quite substantial, and while no doubt the large majority of fruit are dropped close to the mother tree (see Smith et al. 2018 for a multispecies comparative assessment of this) what really matters are those seeds that survive, establish, and grow.
>  
> I have always been curious about why some dipterocarp species lost their wings. If substantial numbers of fruit do get caught in canopies and fail to establish, then there should be strong selection pressure against wings. I would expect strongly shade tolerant species to be more likely to have non-winged fruit. Wings are also likely to be of little value for subcanopy species, or those in dense forests, both in terms of dispersal function and shade tolerance traits (e.g., large fruit sizes). Localities that experience little wind such as, perhaps, sheltered riparian species, might be less likely to have wings than ridgetop species.
>  
> Jaboury
>  
>  
> From: Mastwatch <mastwatch-bounces at lists.phylodiversity.net> On Behalf Of Chuck Cannon
> Sent: 28 March 2019 15:44
> To: Ashton, Peter <pashton at oeb.harvard.edu>
> Cc: mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> Subject: Re: [Mastwatch] West Kal Mast
>  
> Great discussion, everyone.  
>  
> I agree with Tim Laman's remark about how these forests are largely shaped by rare events (that are statistically almost impossible to analyze) and trees do an enormous amount of bet hedging and experimentation in an attempt to win one of those lotteries.  A single tree probably does not pursue a single strategy for getting its seeds into an advantageous position but is simultaneously making numerous wagers.  
>  
> In line with Peter's observation about the ones on more specialized and localized habitats having poorer dispersal abilities, you see the same thing in Lithocarpus.  The stone oaks are another group with rather mysterious dispersal.
>  
> Chuck
>  
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 9:18 AM Ashton, Peter <pashton at oeb.harvard.edu> wrote:
> One further obs: There are a higher proportion of endemic dipterocarp species on ecological islands (raised podsol beaches, kerangas, humult sandy ukltisols over sandstone) with wingless fruit than on the widespread Sunda 'matrix' of loamy ultisols.
>  
> Peter 
> From: Mastwatch <mastwatch-bounces at lists.phylodiversity.net> on behalf of Mark Leighton <markleighton9 at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 1:45:09 PM
> To: Lord Cranbrook; Tim Laman
> Cc: mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> Subject: Re: [Mastwatch] West Kal Mast
>  
> correct, Tim
>  
> On Thursday, March 28, 2019, 2:46:24 PM GMT+2, Tim Laman <tim at timlaman.com> wrote:
>  
>  
> Greetings all,
>  
> To add my two cents, I think what Peter meant mainly is that any limited lateral movement from the parent tree by the winged fruit is disrupted by the canopy below so they won’t keep moving sideways.  I don’t think a very large percentage of fruits get stuck in the canopy.  Most fall to the ground, but they certainly don’t get far.  
>  
> For your enjoyment, here is a shot I took of the masting Shorea spp in the canopy in Gunung Palung in December with one of those very handy new-fangled drones.  While the Shorea fruits are positioned at the twig tips, you can see in the image that most will not get a “clean release” from their own tree crown, and will just tumble down to the ground beneath the tree.  But selection operates on rare events, right?  What about that big gust of wind that comes before thunderstorms?  Could that carry a few seeds from the top of the crown to some distance, and they survive better than the mass of seedlings beneath the tree?
>  
> Best,
> Tim
> <image001.jpg>
>  
> On Mar 28, 2019, at 7:43 AM, Lord Cranbrook <lordcranbrook at greatglemhamfarms.co.uk> wrote:
>  
> THere are always 1000's of seedlings around the base of parent trees, after a mast year. l don't think wind dispersal is very effective.
> Why are the wings so brightly coloured ?
> ln Sarawak engkebang fruits also float down the rivers
>  
> From: Mastwatch [mailto:mastwatch-bounces at lists.phylodiversity.net] On Behalf Of Mikaail Kavanagh
> Sent: 28 March 2019 04:15
> To: Ashton, Peter; Wong Siew Te DJN; Andreas Carlson; mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> Subject: Re: [Mastwatch] West Kal Mast
>  
> Hi Friends, 
>  
> Interesting point, Peter. I must confess to not knowing that so many of the winged fruit never make it to ground level.
>  
> Wong, the video that you circulated (thanks!) got me thinking about the relevance of the winged fruits in terms of evolutionary strategies for different sub-habitats and niches.  Presumably, there would be different selective pressures according to such differences?  In particular, has anyone looked at the wings' effect on floating - potentially for long distances - for such a riverside specialist as, for example, the Neram (Dipterocarpus oblongifolius)?
>  
> Thanks for sharing.
>  
> Mike
>  
> Dato’ Dr Mikaail Kavanagh, MBE
> Mobile:  +6012 267 5775
> Office:   +603 6203 3138 
> Email: dmikekav at gmail.com
> Skype:           mikaail.kavanagh
> Office:  Suite A-06-06  
>   Plaza Mont Kiara,  2 Jalan Kiara 
>   50480  Kuala Lumpur,   Malaysia                  
>  
>  
>  
> On 27 Mar 2019, at 6:07 PM, Ashton, Peter <pashton at oeb.harvard.edu> wrote:
>  
> Hi Andreas and mastwatchers,
>  
> There have been several efforts to study the impact of dipterocarp winged fruit on their distance of dispersal. Bu don't forget that the vast majority rarely fall in a wind, and then only into the main canopy a few metres beneath. So studies of the comparative influence of winged versus winglessness on the fate of the embryo (trapped in the canopy versus dropping through (and then what?), survival, predation etc.) deserves study as well.
>  
> Peter
> From: Mastwatch <mastwatch-bounces at lists.phylodiversity.net> on behalf of Andreas Carlson <acarlson at math.uio.no>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2019 1:54:08 AM
> To: Siew Teu Wong
> Cc: mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> Subject: Re: [Mastwatch] West Kal Mast
>  
> Dear all, 
>  
> This movie was absolutely stunning! We have been working on understanding how the geometry of these flying fruits influence their flight (https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.122.024501).
> Amazing to see this fruiting and fascinating flight! 
>  
> Thanks for sharing. 
>  
> Best,
> Andreas.
> —————————————
> Andreas Carlson
> Associate Professor 
> Department of Mathematics 
> University of Oslo
> 
> E-mail: acarlson at math.uio.no
> Phone: (+47) 228-57223
> Web: folk.uio.no/acarlson
> Skype: carlsona
>  
> On 25 Mar 2019, at 10:02, Siew Te Wong <wongsiew at hotmail.com> wrote:
>  
> Hi all,
> This video was posted in FB, taken somewhere in Sibu, Sarawak.
> https://www.facebook.com/edgar.ong/videos/10155952528861232/
>  
> Thank you.
>  
> Kindest regards,
> Wong
>  
> Dr (Hon) Wong Siew Te, D.J.N.  
> 准拿督黃修德荣誉博士
> C.E.O. and Founder, 
> Bornean Sun Bear Conservation Centre
> email: wongsiew at hotmail.com
> skype: wongsiew
> Cell: 016-555 1256
>  
> http://www.bsbcc.org.my/
> https://www.facebook.com/sunbear.bsbcc
> http://www.youtube.com/user/BSBCC
> http://twitter.com/BSBCC_SunBear
> 
> "May all beings be happy, joyful, well, & at safety & peace!"
>  
> From: Mastwatch <mastwatch-bounces at lists.phylodiversity.net> on behalf of Philipson Christopher David <christopher.philipson at usys.ethz.ch>
> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 6:23 PM
> To: Cam Webb
> Cc: mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> Subject: Re: [Mastwatch] West Kal Mast
>  
> Hi Cam and all, 
>  
> I just returned from south India and saw some dip fruiting in the forest reserves in Kerala.  Being seasonal forest its perhaps a bit less relevant to the Borneo fruiting - but it would be interesting to link these cycles climatically and genetically at some point!
>  
> Cheers
> Chris
>  
> Dr. Christopher Philipson
> christopher.philipson at usys.ethz.ch
>  
> http://www.ecology.ethz.ch/people/group-leaders.html
>  
> http://scholar.google.ch/citations?user=9J6ltyUAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao
>  
>  
> On 28 Feb 2019, at 18:53, Cam Webb <cam_webb at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
> Thanks all, for the forest news from across Borneo (and beyond).
> 
> It seems the Gunung Palung mast was big: definitely biggest since Feb
> 2010, and maybe bigger than that one. Peak fruit fall was several weeks
> ago. Dipterocarp flowering started in late Sept 2018. I’ll post more
> details when I know them.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Cam
> _______________________________________________
> Mastwatch mailing list
> Mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> http://lists.phylodiversity.net/listinfo.cgi/mastwatch-phylodiversity.net
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Mastwatch mailing list
> Mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> http://lists.phylodiversity.net/listinfo.cgi/mastwatch-phylodiversity.net
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Mastwatch mailing list
> Mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> http://lists.phylodiversity.net/listinfo.cgi/mastwatch-phylodiversity.net
> _______________________________________________
> Mastwatch mailing list
> Mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> http://lists.phylodiversity.net/listinfo.cgi/mastwatch-phylodiversity.net
> _______________________________________________
> Mastwatch mailing list
> Mastwatch at lists.phylodiversity.net
> http://lists.phylodiversity.net/listinfo.cgi/mastwatch-phylodiversity.net
>  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.phylodiversity.net/pipermail/mastwatch-phylodiversity.net/attachments/20190330/6ba1a474/attachment-0003.html>


More information about the Mastwatch mailing list